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	<title>Comments on: The Lacy Clusterfuck: Anaylzing the Web&#8217;s Elite(ism) [Updated, 3 Effin' Times]</title>
	<atom:link href="http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/</link>
	<description>The Culture of Technology / The Technologies of Pop Culture</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 19:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jake McKee</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-844</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-844</guid>
		<description>I can understand where you're coming from - I almost hate to say "you weren't there" too. But it's been striking how different the experience and reaction has been between those in the room and those not. 

Interesting stuff either way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can understand where you&#8217;re coming from - I almost hate to say &#8220;you weren&#8217;t there&#8221; too. But it&#8217;s been striking how different the experience and reaction has been between those in the room and those not. </p>
<p>Interesting stuff either way!</p>
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		<title>By: Nav</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-843</link>
		<dc:creator>Nav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-843</guid>
		<description>@Dave, thanks for the thoughtful comment. 

I think it's now become apparent that I have messed this up. I made a couple of rather amateur mistakes, namely that I wrote while angry, and also that I tried to make the event conform to my (quite possibly wrong) broader perspective. So, can I just to say to everyone: I was wrong, I'll do better next time. On the plus side though, I used 'clusterfuck' in a post title ;) 

But I am still troubled by what I read as the sexist reaction as news of the event disseminated. It seems that most now agree that the in-the-moment response was not determined by a sort of misogyny, but I still wonder to what extent a mentality that privileges masculinity and masculine behaviour amplified the vociferous - and often vitriolic - response.

-Nav</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dave, thanks for the thoughtful comment. </p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s now become apparent that I have messed this up. I made a couple of rather amateur mistakes, namely that I wrote while angry, and also that I tried to make the event conform to my (quite possibly wrong) broader perspective. So, can I just to say to everyone: I was wrong, I&#8217;ll do better next time. On the plus side though, I used &#8216;clusterfuck&#8217; in a post title <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But I am still troubled by what I read as the sexist reaction as news of the event disseminated. It seems that most now agree that the in-the-moment response was not determined by a sort of misogyny, but I still wonder to what extent a mentality that privileges masculinity and masculine behaviour amplified the vociferous - and often vitriolic - response.</p>
<p>-Nav</p>
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		<title>By: dave mcclure</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>dave mcclure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-842</guid>
		<description>hey nav -

like others above, i wonder if you might have had a different reaction had you been there in person.  after 45 minutes of an interview that made me thin "what twilight zone episode did we step into?", i don't believe it was surprising most everyone in the room was frustrated enough to vocalize their feelings.  and yes a few hecklers took it a bit further, but most folks kept their cool for quite a bit before things boiled over.  even mark himself seemed to be trying hard to help her recover, and was actually rather reserved throughout the situation.  but his "you need to ask questions" comment seemed to hit a nerve with the audience, and at that point they heartily agreed with extended cheers &#38; applause.

still i don't agree the crowd became a "lynch mob"... they were simply expressing a strong opinion that they wanted a real interview, and that sarah was waaaaay off track.  oddly, she still had plenty of time before the 0:40-45m mark to get it together, but unfortunately it never happened and ultimately she herself decided to let the audience take over (&#38; opened the floor to questions).  

finally my post about sarah not being a geek wasn't an attempt to emphasize geek conformity, but rather an explanation for why so many people think it's "hard" to interview mark.  i don't think it's a call for conformity to ask that the interviewer have some relevance to the material being discussed.  that fact of the matter is that IT ISN'T THAT HARD to interview mark if you ask questions that he cares about / knows about, and have some understanding of the world he comes from.  to wit: the following day at the Facebook Dev Garage, he took a number of [occasionally tough] questions from a largely technical audience about Facebook platform &#38; strategy, and he sounded intelligent, eloquent, and at ease.  

maybe after this happens a few more times, people will realize it's not just a coincidence that when people who don't know tech keep asking him why he's so young, so rich, who he's dating, etc etc that the interview ends up sucking ass.  anyway, maybe i'm a biased geek, but that's my perspective.

peace,

- dmc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey nav -</p>
<p>like others above, i wonder if you might have had a different reaction had you been there in person.  after 45 minutes of an interview that made me thin &#8220;what twilight zone episode did we step into?&#8221;, i don&#8217;t believe it was surprising most everyone in the room was frustrated enough to vocalize their feelings.  and yes a few hecklers took it a bit further, but most folks kept their cool for quite a bit before things boiled over.  even mark himself seemed to be trying hard to help her recover, and was actually rather reserved throughout the situation.  but his &#8220;you need to ask questions&#8221; comment seemed to hit a nerve with the audience, and at that point they heartily agreed with extended cheers &amp; applause.</p>
<p>still i don&#8217;t agree the crowd became a &#8220;lynch mob&#8221;&#8230; they were simply expressing a strong opinion that they wanted a real interview, and that sarah was waaaaay off track.  oddly, she still had plenty of time before the 0:40-45m mark to get it together, but unfortunately it never happened and ultimately she herself decided to let the audience take over (&amp; opened the floor to questions).  </p>
<p>finally my post about sarah not being a geek wasn&#8217;t an attempt to emphasize geek conformity, but rather an explanation for why so many people think it&#8217;s &#8220;hard&#8221; to interview mark.  i don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a call for conformity to ask that the interviewer have some relevance to the material being discussed.  that fact of the matter is that IT ISN&#8217;T THAT HARD to interview mark if you ask questions that he cares about / knows about, and have some understanding of the world he comes from.  to wit: the following day at the Facebook Dev Garage, he took a number of [occasionally tough] questions from a largely technical audience about Facebook platform &amp; strategy, and he sounded intelligent, eloquent, and at ease.  </p>
<p>maybe after this happens a few more times, people will realize it&#8217;s not just a coincidence that when people who don&#8217;t know tech keep asking him why he&#8217;s so young, so rich, who he&#8217;s dating, etc etc that the interview ends up sucking ass.  anyway, maybe i&#8217;m a biased geek, but that&#8217;s my perspective.</p>
<p>peace,</p>
<p>- dmc</p>
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		<title>By: Nav</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator>Nav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-841</guid>
		<description>@Jake: Thanks for the comment and the insight. I suppose I was trying to get away from the "you weren't there so you don't get it" mentality but, as you and others have said, I obviously missed something. All things told, I wish I could have rewritten this post in &lt;a href="http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/03/09/lacy-and-mark-z-train-wreck-or-lynch-mob/" rel="nofollow"&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; even-handed and balanced style now. I just know it's bad blogger etiquette to take a post down after it's been posted - even when, like this one, it starts to get embarrassing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jake: Thanks for the comment and the insight. I suppose I was trying to get away from the &#8220;you weren&#8217;t there so you don&#8217;t get it&#8221; mentality but, as you and others have said, I obviously missed something. All things told, I wish I could have rewritten this post in <a href="http://www.mathewingram.com/work/2008/03/09/lacy-and-mark-z-train-wreck-or-lynch-mob/" rel="nofollow">this</a> even-handed and balanced style now. I just know it&#8217;s bad blogger etiquette to take a post down after it&#8217;s been posted - even when, like this one, it starts to get embarrassing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake McKee</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-840</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake McKee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-840</guid>
		<description>I'm still sorting out my thoughts as I read and watch the reactions. I think there's an equally good case to be made both for the mob mentality being unacceptable and for accepting that conferences are no longer about sitting in an audience and watching an expert spew expertness. (I'm a frequent speaker myself, and nobody is harder on my performances than me)

One thing I will take objection to, however, is the idea that being in the room doesn't matter. It mattered a great deal, actually. I was in an overflow room, and I've watched the video. The video misses a significant part of the story - the fact that the room was nearly alive with frustration and annoyance and confusion as literally hundreds of people grew more and more uncomfortable watching the oddness. 

Have you ever been caught a few feet away from a couple fighting? Incredibly uncomfortable in a "down in the gut" sorta way, right? Then you try to explain to someone else just exactly how uncomfortable it was, and they're simply not able to comprehend? 

Yeah, same deal here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still sorting out my thoughts as I read and watch the reactions. I think there&#8217;s an equally good case to be made both for the mob mentality being unacceptable and for accepting that conferences are no longer about sitting in an audience and watching an expert spew expertness. (I&#8217;m a frequent speaker myself, and nobody is harder on my performances than me)</p>
<p>One thing I will take objection to, however, is the idea that being in the room doesn&#8217;t matter. It mattered a great deal, actually. I was in an overflow room, and I&#8217;ve watched the video. The video misses a significant part of the story - the fact that the room was nearly alive with frustration and annoyance and confusion as literally hundreds of people grew more and more uncomfortable watching the oddness. </p>
<p>Have you ever been caught a few feet away from a couple fighting? Incredibly uncomfortable in a &#8220;down in the gut&#8221; sorta way, right? Then you try to explain to someone else just exactly how uncomfortable it was, and they&#8217;re simply not able to comprehend? </p>
<p>Yeah, same deal here.</p>
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		<title>By: Nav</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator>Nav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 00:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-839</guid>
		<description>@Rex: Well, I obviously wasn't there and you were - but I'm not sure that b/c other women haven't encountered such a response, it's therefore misguided to talk of sexism. It assumes that sexism is about people being in particular bodies and not about exhibiting particular ('feminine') traits. People like McCarthy and Swisher have become good at working in a masculine world (notice I didn't say "a man's world") - and the fact that you refer to flirtation seems to be indicative of how difficult it is to discuss femininity or its presence in this context. I'm not saying that Lacy wasn't being overly friendly - it's that it was read as a personal rather than professional failing that seemed off to me. That's to say nothing of all the explicitly sexist comments on tech blogs and even Youtube - and, c'mon, it wasn't your regular YouTube commenter who was watching Sarah Lacy respond, it was people like us. Oh also, people have arrived at SiW by searching for "Sarah Lacy big tits", so yeah...

'Course that said, you know how much I respect your opinion, so I'm not &lt;i&gt;entirely&lt;/i&gt; disagreeing - as I said, I wasn't there,  and I also did a crappy job with this post, so... thanks for the comment dude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rex: Well, I obviously wasn&#8217;t there and you were - but I&#8217;m not sure that b/c other women haven&#8217;t encountered such a response, it&#8217;s therefore misguided to talk of sexism. It assumes that sexism is about people being in particular bodies and not about exhibiting particular (&#8217;feminine&#8217 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> traits. People like McCarthy and Swisher have become good at working in a masculine world (notice I didn&#8217;t say &#8220;a man&#8217;s world&#8221 <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> - and the fact that you refer to flirtation seems to be indicative of how difficult it is to discuss femininity or its presence in this context. I&#8217;m not saying that Lacy wasn&#8217;t being overly friendly - it&#8217;s that it was read as a personal rather than professional failing that seemed off to me. That&#8217;s to say nothing of all the explicitly sexist comments on tech blogs and even Youtube - and, c&#8217;mon, it wasn&#8217;t your regular YouTube commenter who was watching Sarah Lacy respond, it was people like us. Oh also, people have arrived at SiW by searching for &#8220;Sarah Lacy big tits&#8221;, so yeah&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8216;Course that said, you know how much I respect your opinion, so I&#8217;m not <i>entirely</i> disagreeing - as I said, I wasn&#8217;t there,  and I also did a crappy job with this post, so&#8230; thanks for the comment dude.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-838</guid>
		<description>The sexism angle on this seems misguided to me. If Kara Swisher or Caroline McCarthy or Veronica Belmont had been up there doing the interview, I don't think this would have happened. There's a decent history of female interviewers at SXSW (last year, a woman interviewed Dan Rather, for instance) that never elicited this kind of reaction. 

(That said, there's was definitely a male/female dynamic of flirtation going on up there. I'm not sure how to analyze that though. I bet it did contribute to the irritation of some.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The sexism angle on this seems misguided to me. If Kara Swisher or Caroline McCarthy or Veronica Belmont had been up there doing the interview, I don&#8217;t think this would have happened. There&#8217;s a decent history of female interviewers at SXSW (last year, a woman interviewed Dan Rather, for instance) that never elicited this kind of reaction. </p>
<p>(That said, there&#8217;s was definitely a male/female dynamic of flirtation going on up there. I&#8217;m not sure how to analyze that though. I bet it did contribute to the irritation of some.)</p>
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		<title>By: D. Aristophanes</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>D. Aristophanes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Mar 2008 00:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-836</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I think that whenever an interview bombs, the responsibility is solely on the interviewer.&lt;/i&gt;

But this was a planned production, not a simple interview. Thus the blame lies with the casting director (Facebook and SXSW flacks), the interviewer (Lacy) and her co-star (Zuckerberg). All parties, not just Lacy. The Twittertard revolt is something entirely different, but is also blame-worthy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I think that whenever an interview bombs, the responsibility is solely on the interviewer.</i></p>
<p>But this was a planned production, not a simple interview. Thus the blame lies with the casting director (Facebook and SXSW flacks), the interviewer (Lacy) and her co-star (Zuckerberg). All parties, not just Lacy. The Twittertard revolt is something entirely different, but is also blame-worthy.</p>
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		<title>By: Nav</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-835</link>
		<dc:creator>Nav</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-835</guid>
		<description>Aww, crap. I always end up doing this.

@Veronica: I obviously misread your comments in the heat of my (inexplicably angry) reaction to the whole Lacy/Zuckerberg mess. I do think that there is a centralisation of perspective on 'the internet' that is rooted in a very North American/European perspective - and I do legitimately think that there is possibly inadvertent potential for elitism there - but it seems I was just looking for targets rather than doing good analysis, so I'm sorry for unnecessarily singling you out and offending you. I actually consider myself a fan, so, yeah - apologies dude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aww, crap. I always end up doing this.</p>
<p>@Veronica: I obviously misread your comments in the heat of my (inexplicably angry) reaction to the whole Lacy/Zuckerberg mess. I do think that there is a centralisation of perspective on &#8216;the internet&#8217; that is rooted in a very North American/European perspective - and I do legitimately think that there is possibly inadvertent potential for elitism there - but it seems I was just looking for targets rather than doing good analysis, so I&#8217;m sorry for unnecessarily singling you out and offending you. I actually consider myself a fan, so, yeah - apologies dude.</p>
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		<title>By: veronica</title>
		<link>http://scrawledinwax.com/2008/03/10/the-lacy-clusterfuck-anaylzing-the-webs-eliteism/#comment-834</link>
		<dc:creator>veronica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scrawledinwax.com/?p=238#comment-834</guid>
		<description>Yes, actually, it's my job to know what's on the Internet. I was poking fun at the fact that most of the websites at the Web Awards were virtually unknown. Trust me, if you had been there you would have seen the relatively lackluster response as every site was announced (the only clapping came from the tables where the nominees sat). Even one of the sites I did recognize, Bitstrips, had only been public for a manner of a few days. So it's leads me to ask what exactly the nominations are based on, and how the winners are chosen (certainly not the general public which uses these sites, if they're still in private beta).

I don't claim to be leading any kind of web revolution. My job is to simply inform and entertain. I'm sorry if you somehow found my coverage offensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, actually, it&#8217;s my job to know what&#8217;s on the Internet. I was poking fun at the fact that most of the websites at the Web Awards were virtually unknown. Trust me, if you had been there you would have seen the relatively lackluster response as every site was announced (the only clapping came from the tables where the nominees sat). Even one of the sites I did recognize, Bitstrips, had only been public for a manner of a few days. So it&#8217;s leads me to ask what exactly the nominations are based on, and how the winners are chosen (certainly not the general public which uses these sites, if they&#8217;re still in private beta).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t claim to be leading any kind of web revolution. My job is to simply inform and entertain. I&#8217;m sorry if you somehow found my coverage offensive.</p>
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